Despite the accusation being “widely doubted by the public”,^[14] and many clemency appeals from foreign leaders, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was hanged on April 4, 1979. Appeals for clemency were dismissed by acting President General Zia. Benazir Bhutto and her mother were held in a “police camp” until the end of May, after the execution.^[15]

In 1985, Benazir Bhutto’s brother Shahnawaz was killed under suspicious circumstances in France. Later in 1996 the killing of her other brother, Mir Murtaza, contributed to destabilizing her second term as Prime Minister.

For seven long years Benazir Bhutto has been dreaming of returning to Pakistan, the country she has served as prime minister twice. As she began finalising the details of her impending return to her homeland, the excitement was laced with uncertainty. Not surprising, since last week another former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, who too was on a homecoming after eight years, was bundled from one airplane to another and banished to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. The Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) leader spoke to INDIA TODAY Editor Prabhu Chawla for Aaj Tak. Excerpts from the interview.

Q. So how do you feel about your impending departure for home?
A. I am very excited. Seven years is a long time and I am wondering what changes have taken place.

Q. What do you expect? A red carpet or the reception that Sharif got?
A. I don’t know how I will be received. But I am not in the same boat as him. He has been convicted by the court of law and sentenced for treason and tax evasion. He had traded his imprisonment for a 10-year exile in Saudi Arabia with his family and this involved foreign guarantees. I was given the same offer. But I refused. So unlike Nawaz Sharif, I cannot be put on a plane and sent out.

Q. But the Government will not allow you also to return as there are charges pending against you.
A. The corruption charges against me have not been withdrawn. As far as I am concerned, I am out on bail and should not be arrested. I stayed out so I would not lose my freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of movement and association.

Q. Is there an agreement with General Musharraf that he would be your presidential choice and you will be his prime minister?
A. The discussion or transition to democracy has not been successful so far. I am going back in an uncertain environment.

Q. Is there any deal with him?
A. Of course not. Please do not use this word. It is unfair to my long history of suffering.

Q. I know you will not admit it but you went to Abu Dhabi to meet him.
A. That was a non-meeting.

Q. Non-meeting or no meeting.
A. Neither side has officially admitted to the meeting. But contacts between the regime and PPP have been taking place since 1999.

Q. General Musharraf’s popularity is on the wane and he needs a civilian face to stay in power. Are you willing to protect him?
A. Whether he needs someone to protect him or not, only he can answer.
But the people of Pakistan need someone to fight for their rights.

Q. You are Benazir Bhutto,who is in exile, facing persecution and whose father was executed. Is it right on your part to compromise with someone who has deposed an elected prime minister?
A. I cannot compromise. I am seeking the restoration of democracy.

Q. Prime ministers rarely survive their full term in Pakistan. You yourself were dismissed twice. Is there something wrong with the DNA of Pakistan which makes military rulers throw out elected rulers?
A. I feel very upset to hear that there is something wrong with the DNA of Pakistan. Unfortunately, the military has impeded the democratic growth of Pakistan, unlike in India where you have a democracy and a peaceful transfer of power. India is also emerging as an economic powerhouse and is a force to reckon with on the world stage.

Q. But we have the same blood. We are only divided by geography.
A. Because of the military, Pakistan has not developed institutions or has had a stable environment where growth can take place.

Q. Have you set any pre-conditions for your return to Pakistan?
A. There are no agreements. I am going back unconditionally.

Q. You have been holding talks.
A. Everybody is talking. Sharif has been talking since 2000, otherwise how could he go to Saudi Arabia?

Q. Will you allow Musharraf to continue as President?
A. There has been a dialogue, but there has been no agreement. The dialogue is not about personalities but about holding of free and fair elections to get civilians in power

Q. If Musharraf gives up the uniform, can he be the President?
A. First, this question is premature. Second, it is not for me to choose the President. The people will decide.

Q. Will your party support Musharraf if he stays in uniform?
A. We oppose a unformed presidency.

Q. What comes first? Kashmir or uniform?
A. That’s a good question.

Q. You are dodging the issue.
A. No, I am not. It is not based on one element. If today, for example, Musharraf announces that he will give up the uniform, it doesn’t mean there will be an agreement. Same if he were to lift the ban on twice-elected prime ministers from contesting.

Q. You have not defined the transition of democracy.
A. We are for holding of free and fair elections.

Q. In India, we cannot make a general the President under our Constitution.
A. In your country, you make even a nuclear scientist the President. If we did something like that in Pakistan, there would be utter chaos.

Q. But our nuclear scientists do not sell state secrets abroad. Why don’t you make a rule that prohibits generals from becoming President?
A. I think you are right. In Pakistan, we make rules but the military does not allow us to implement them.

Q. Has Musharraf lost the will of the people?
A. Opinion polls suggest that.

Q. Should he go?
A. This is for the people to decide.

Q. You represent the people, don’t you?
A. I am no Nostradamus. I cannot predict events.

Q. The judiciary has been very active in Pakistan.
A. Yes. Under the restored chief justice. We have great satisfaction that there is a check from the Supreme Court in disputed matters. But there are disputes over everything.

Q. Are you going to be a future prime minister or prisoner?
A. There are questions that don’t have answers. Will elections be held? Will they be free and fair? Will opposition parties get together?

Q. The only permanent answer is that Musharraf will stay.
A. That is also uncertain. The question is if Musharraf is eligible to contest another term in office. According to the Constitution, as a former army chief, there’s a two-year bar on a government servant to contest. So this issue will end up in courts.

Q. So you are saying Musharraf should give up the uniform, the ban on twice-elected prime ministers contesting elections should be lifted and …
A. It is important that all corruption cases against party workers be lifted and immunity be given to them. This is in everyone’s interest.

Q. Do you support Sharif’s deportation?
A. The courts have to rule in this matter. Every citizen has the right to come back. But the other argument is that Sharif traded his rights to live in Pakistan for the dropping of charges against him.

Q. Is your fight against Sharif or Musharraf?
A. My fight is for democracy.

Q. But he has scored a symbolic victory over you.
A. I don’t buy it. Very few people were present at the airport when he arrived. He made a mistake by making a deal, involving foreign parties and so on. But people can review mistakes. And I hope he will.

Q. People say America is playing the intermediary between you and Musharraf.
A. They are going back and forth in Pakistan in the larger interest of the war against terrorism.

Q. Are you not talking to them? Aren’t you the US nominee for the prime ministership of Pakistan?
A. Of course, we have been talking to them. They talk to all parties. This is the nature of political discourse. We welcome their democratic support.

Q. But unlike you, Sharif is clear that he will not talk to a dictator.
A. I disagree, because he did talk.

Q. That was earlier.
A. We are told that he talked. He was supposed to be travelling on Gulf Air earlier, but he went on a state PIA plane later.

Q. Are you saying he had a secret deal with the Government?
A. I don’t know.

Q. Will you become prime minister under Musharraf as President?
A. This will depend on the people of Pakistan if they get to vote in free and fair elections.

Q. Assume that the elections are fair.
A. I can’t do so because of the ground realities. The point is Pakistan is in turmoil because of so many issues and no one knows the course. Things could lead to an emergency, a military rule and deferment of polls. Even the militant hardliners are frightened of democracy. They seem to have adopted a Minus 3 Formula now—first it was opposition to me, then Sharif and now me, Sharif and Musharraf. The hardliners who formed the Mujahideen and became members of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda do not want the people to get back their rights because their agenda will be rolled back.

Q. So for you, restoration of democracy is more important than whether Musharraf stays in power or not.
A. No. For me, the right of the people to choose their leaders is most important.

Q. And is it none of your business whether Musharraf is chosen or not?
A. The question is whether he is eligible or not.

Q. You are also not eligible to become prime minister under the current laws.
A. Yes, but I can contest elections and Parliament can change the law.

Q. But you would like to become prime minister.
A. Yes. If people give me the mandate, it will be a great honour.

Q. In the event of your party coming to power, is your candidature for prime ministership certain?
A. Of course, my party has only one candidate.

Q. So your mission to Pakistan is to return as prime minister and restore democracy.
A. I can sit back and ask why should I take the risk? But I believe every Pakistani has the right to live in Pakistan

1. What do you think of Lt. Gen. Ashfaque Kiani? He’s a close ally of Musharraf. Does that bother you?
Ans: Lt General Kiani has a reputation as a professional officer which is what the armed forces and Pakistan need.

2. The army controls everything from arms to businesses and there are those who are supporting extremism and terrorism. How would you be able to handle and control the Army?
Ans: Our first step is to separate the offices of army chief and the President. General Musharaf has now given an undertaking to the Supreme Court of Pakistan that he will retire as army chief after the presidential elections this October. Under the present military doctored Constitution, the armed forces come under the President. The political parties would need to unite to bring control of the armed forces back to Parliament for reform to take place. PPP has signed a Charter of Democracy calling upon political parties to make the members of the armed forces answerable to Parliament, as they are in Washington, London and France, for greater transparency and accountability.

3. What would be your ideal amendment to the Constitution, if you return to power?
Ans: To prevent a return to the dysfunctional democracy of the nineties it is important to do away with the powers of the president to dismiss an elected parliament in his discretion. Secondly, there are other issues like lifting the military imposed ban on a twice elected prime minister contesting election for a third time for prime minister, appointment of Governors, members of the Judiciary and Election Commission. The Charter of Democracy spells out the changes needed.

4. You’ve had mentioned about the package deal with Musharraf: balance of power, reforms for a fair election, lifting the ban on a twice-elected prime minister. When do you expect these to happen and how so?
Ans: These issues are part of our negotiations and will happen in a phased manner. Some steps have already been taken like arrangements for shedding military uniform, the counting of ballots, stopping horse trading by preventing arrest of parliamentarians without permission of an Ethics Committee, end to political victimization and national reconciliation. I hope other issues like eligibility of Prime Ministerial candidates and balance of power between parliament and presidency will also be resolved in due course.

5. Elaborate on what does “a power-sharing” deal means? Would this include the Army as well since Musharraf has a hold on them?
Ans: The PPP negotiations are not to share power but to restore democracy through the holding of fair, free and impartial elections where civilians govern and people are the masters of their own destiny.

6. Being in self-exiled for 8 years, what has changed inside on a person (as a mother and wife) and professional level (as a politician)?
Ans: Adversity has tempered my character. My husband was in jail in Pakistan for 8 years without a conviction and I had to bring up small children as single parent in exile besides looking after my ailing mother. Scores of members of my party were killed. We paid a heavy price for democracy. This experience has strengthened my commitment for building a tolerant society which respects human rights, allows a free media, has a transparent and corruption free government which tackles the social and economic issues of the people, brings peace internally by undermining the forces of extremism and builds peace regionally.

7. How would you run the country now in comparison to your previous tenures? Which issues would you give priority?
Ans: I would seek reconciliation, peace, ending militancy, eradicating poverty, building institutions of civil rule and democracy, spreading education and providing hope to the people of Pakistan for a better future.

8. You mentioned before that you’d better controls in the tribal areas when you were in office. Things have certainly changed during the past years — 9/11 and the rising inflation rate and terrorism — in the country. How do you expect to tackle an uphill task after being out of action for 8 years?
Ans: The military government has relied solely on the use of force in dealing with extremism in the tribal areas. We believe that alongside the use of force, we also need to take political steps and improve the socio economic conditions of the people in the tribal area. Poverty and social isolation also breeds militancy. We will address issues of poverty and social isolation in the tribal areas. My Party has already filed a constitutional petition in the Supreme Court seeking the extension of Political Parties Act to the tribal areas. We want to bring the people of the tribal areas into the twenty first century and make them stake holders in fighting militancy and extremism. We would interrupt the flow of drug funds that finance militancy as well as spread education and employment.

9. It was understood that you tried to strike a deal with the Army. How is it going and how would that gel with your deal with Musharraf?
Ans: I am not striking any deal with the Army. I am looking at transition to democracy in which the Parliament is sovereign and the military performs its constitutionally ordained duties.

10. Your take on American funds to Pakistan for the war on terror. Increasingly, there is an anti-American sentiment among Pakistanis because the country’s leaders continue to be dictated by the American government. Do you think the country still needs aid to fight terror? What would you have done?
Ans: Terrorism is a threat to the internal unity and integrity of Pakistan. Unless it is eliminated, God forbid, Pakistan could disintegrate and its people suffer bloodshed and civil war. A PPP government will cooperate with the international community in the fight on terror to save Pakistan and bring regional security for a safer world.

11. Observers said the power marriage between you and Musharraf will not last due to conflicting interests, management styles and personalities. What is your comment?
Ans: It is for the people to decide who will govern them. However unless the Constitution clearly spells out the responsibilities of the President and Parliament, no government will survive irrespective of the management styles and personalities of the persons involved. The dismissals of earlier governments including that of Prime Minister Junejo and Prime Minister Nawaz prove the point. I argue for a Constitution that permits for stability.

12. Critiques said that you do not have the slightest clue as to how a soldier gets sandwiched between his oath of a soldier and his own conscience while killing Muslim brothers. What is your comment?
Ans: I would not like to see the Pakistan army kill Muslims or non-Muslims whether it is in East Pakistan, Baluchistan, Karachi or the tribal areas of Pakistan. However I would like to see the Pakistan army defend the unity and territorial integrity of Pakistan and come in aid of civil power to protect the lives, liberty and livelihood of the people of Pakistan whenever it is under threat.

The reactions to the new development have been interesting. President General Pervez Musharraf has repeated his “request” to Ms Benazir Bhutto to postpone her return to Pakistan to avoid “turmoil” – his chosen word to express a complex problem. He says he has not received Ms Bhutto’s reaction to his request, but the PPP spokespersons have already rejected the request, and preparations are on to welcome her in Karachi amid massive security measures after Al Qaeda, as conveyed through its deputy Baitullah Mehsud, threatened to kill her.

The “turmoil” the president wants to avoid is politically complex. It is not so much Al Qaeda he is currently dreading because that is a longer-term problem; nor can he be expected to ruminate too much on the personal safety of Ms Bhutto. It is the “turmoil” that is brewing inside the party he has been propping up and canvassing for quite blatantly over the past months, the PMLQ and its anti-PPP partners in power. While the attorney general, Malik Muhammad Qayyum, says the NRO will be implemented because it has not been “stayed” by the Supreme Court, the PMLQ leaders most upset by the prospect of facing a PPP led personally by Ms Bhutto consider the NRO as already defunct.

The old hackles are rising and the country is once again getting ready to settle into its crippling polarities. As passions begin to run on familiar lines, a report says that the tomb of the founder of the PPP, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto at Naodero in Sindh, carries abusive graffiti against him. The Sindh chief minister has been most aggressive in his dislike of the “reconciliation” the president is bent upon effecting with Ms Bhutto. He sees a new political combination coalescing between the PPP and the MQM and finds himself once again consigned to the limbo of Tharparkar with acts of omission and commission during his tenure returning to haunt him.

Reflexes in the PMLQ have also sharpened after realising that, despite all kinds of passionate condemnation in the media, the PPP is bound to retain its hold over 30 percent of the electorate, which can manifest itself in all sorts of ways in the January 2008 general elections. So the PMLQ leaders are basking in the media-unleashed furore that the NRO has “let the corrupt run away with public money”. They want to scuttle the efforts being made by a besieged President Musharraf to widen his political support-base as he fights his lonely battle against Al Qaeda in the Tribal Areas.

Media anchors have typically glossed over the origin of the corruption cases in Pakistan and have carried along the “moral outrage” expressed by those supporting the Lal Masjid revolt and the lawyers’ movement, as they once again go into paroxysms over the NRO. The hype has been so intense that public opinion is now totally geared to the tribal trait of “honour” rather than the democratic condition of “compromise”. There is no regard paid to the need of safeguarding the country’s bipartisan system. A “rejectionism” which will ultimately go in favour of the extremist elements informs the thinking encouraged by the media in Pakistan. “Deal” is a swear word presented as such in the publicity “inserts” of one dominant TV news channel.

The love of confrontation and conflict is on the upswing in Pakistan. Apparently, the only way our “honour” can be saved is by refusing to agree to political compromise and reconciliation. Everyone wants martyrdom without any solution based on the democratic acceptance of “imperfections”; no one thinks of the meagre resource of talent and wisdom in the country’s political system. The tired myth of the “unerring wisdom of the 160 million people” is being repeated by all and sundry on TV channels, without admitting that the 160 million have repeatedly elected the same corrupt politicians again and again, giving the lie to the claim made in their favour.